THE O'NEILL'S OF IRELAND
It was once thought that Margaret O'Neill, the grandmother of my grandfather Patrick O�Neill, actually lived in Carrickmacross Co Monaghan before she had her illegitimate son John O'Neill and did not marry. There was never any mention in the family of cousins or uncles on the O'Neill side of the family - only on the Fox side of the family. This of course was through Annie Fox who married John, Margaret's one and only son, in Grangetown in the year 1887. No records of Margaret O'Neill and her early years with her son John, my great grandfather, have ever been traced to date - and even the attempt to trace her early years in Carrickmacross as a child have been tantalisingly nebulous.There is a street in Carrickmacross named after the O'Neill's who lived there and owned a Hotel on the street in the last century. Margaret may have had a link with this family but records are scarce before the year 1864 - the official year of compulsory registration - and no Margaret O'Neill is found in the baptismal register of the main church in Carrickmacross - St Joseph's. - or indeed of a John O'Neill, whom I believe was born in 1864. A search of the surrounding area of Carrickmacross conducted by the Monaghan registry office also revealed no trace of a John O'Neill born c 1864. So we need more information on the whereabouts of Margaret born c 1836 and John born in 1864, in Ireland according to the 1891 census.
But suddenly, only recently in 2010 after extensive research, my Uncle Gerald O'Neill discovered the elusive John O'Neill aged 17 years, working on a shipping vessel in Penzance as a cook, in 1881, where his birthplace is recorded as Cork Ireland - not in the North, as previously thought; and in the same year, his mother Margaret aged 28 has been employed for ten years as a servant to a rich family in Derbyshire called Boden before leaving with the family to live and work for them in Falmouth, Cornwall, not too far from her son, until the death of her employer in the late 1890's. It appears that she felt forced to place young John aged 6 years into a Catholic industrial school in Liverpool, whilst she earned her living elsewhere in Derby. How she happened to obtain work for a rich property owner living in Derbyshire is a matter for speculation.
1871 Census Records: 150 Blagriffs (Blagreaves) Lane, Littleover, Derby
Thomas W. Boden Hd Widr.42 Int. of money & Landowner Derby
Emily J Boden Dau. 11 Scholar Litchurch Derby
Clara A Dau. 8 Scholar Litchurch Derby
Gertrude M Dau. 5 Scholar Littleover Derby
Margaret O'Neill Serv.U 28 Servant Domestic Ireland
William Bradley Serv. 12 Genl. Servant Nottingham
1871 Census Records for St George's Catholic Industrial School West Derby Rd, Liverpool
records a John O'Neill aged 5 yrs as an inmate along with many others.
The school was founded 1854 or 1858 by Belgian nuns at Everton Flags, Everton Terrace, Liverpool, at first it was mixed school. Certified 30th December 1861 for 275 boys, girls unknown. In 1863 removed to West Derby Road, the former West Derby Fever Hospital that had been modified internally to accommodate the children, 2/3rds girls and 1/3rd boys. Re-certified 13th June 1867 for boys only. The girls were sent to ST GEORGE�S INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS FOR ROMAN CATHOLIC GIRLS, FAIRFIELD, LONDON ROAD, FRESHFIELD, FORMBY.
1881 Census Records: �Aratus� Penzance
William Earle Marr M 61 1820 Master Ashprenton Devon
Edwin Neirass Marr M 35 1846 Mate Torquay Devon
George Shapter Marr M 28 1853 AB Seaman Teignmouth Devon
Thomas Black Single M 20 1861 AB Seaman Belfast Ireland
Charles Scotoberg Single M 23 1858 AB Seaman Sweden (For Nova Scotia)
John White Marr M 30 1851 AB Seaman Nova Scotia
John O'Neill Single M 17 1864 Cook Cork Ireland
So here is my gt grandfather John aged 17, a cook on a ship, not far from his mother � and born in Cork � where my father always said they came from � not Carrickmacross � unless she fled there to have the baby in 1864. So his birth records should be in Cork - if he was he registered at all? But he will have been baptised and his mother may have had to supply a baptismal certificate when he was placed in St George's industrial school in 1870 or so.
1881 Census Records 14 Berkeley Vale, Falmouth, Cornwall
Thomas Wm. BOWDEN Head W 52 M Income From Land St Werburgh, Derby,
Emily Jane BOWDEN Daur U 21 F No Occupation Litchurch, Derby
Clara Annie BOWDEN Daur U 18 F No Occupation Litchurch, Derby,
Gertrude Mary BOWDEN Daur U 15 F Scholar Littleover, Derby
Margaret O'NEILL Serv U 38 F Gen Serv Ireland
1885
Electoral Records show another John O'Neill of 33 Bessemer Street � whom I originally presumed was my great grandfather John as he appeared to be living 3 doors from his future bride Annie Fox. However there was always a slight doubt about this - as his address on the marriage certificate is given as 15 Laing Street � the home of the Gribbin family. This John O�Neill is actually the father of a Rose born in 33 Bessemer Street and Helen O�Neill married to a Mary Ann Browne. [Confirmed by Kathryn Duggan of Whitley Bay who researched the same name and obtained a birth certificate for Rose in August 1883 � copy on desktop.
1885 Birth of Mary Deborah Gribbin - Mgr Carson�s mother
July 18 daughter of Patrick Gribbin & Elizabeth (Stinson)
July 28 Baptism by Henry Walker in St Peter�s South Bank
Godparents: John O�Neill and Hannah Farrell
A very interesting discovery as it appears to confirm Auntie Eileen�s suggestion that the Carson�s were linked in some way to Eileen�s grandfather and my gt grandfather John. It would seem highly likely that this John living in the same house in 1887 was living there also in 1885 - even though the baptism took place in St Peter�s - a mile away � perhaps it was a holiday break for J J Nolan. It was high summer. So the reason that John O�Neill is possibly not on the early Electoral Registers was because he was a boarder in 15 Laing Street and not the house representative � who was Patrick Gribbin. But why John was chosen to be godfather to a Gribbin child is the mystery. Was he a relative? He must have been a very close friend � or his family was.
1887 MARRIAGE OF JOHN O'NEILL TO ANNIE FOX
Oct 29th John O'Neill aged 23 of 15 Laing Street
Married Annie Fox aged 21 of 39 Bessemer Street
His father's name claimed to be John deceased
Her father's name Peter.
Witnesses - Thomas Flanagan and Annie Tierney
15 Laing St is registered to a Patrick Gribbin at this time - so this suggests some connection between John O'Neill and the Gribbin family. But the 1891 census reveals no trace of a person called O'Neill living there. Full particulars later pages: -
1887
Dec 12 Birth of Katy Gribbin - a teacher in St Mary's Grangetown
dau of Patrick and Elizabeth Gribbin
Dec 17 Baptised in St Mary's RC Grangetown
Godparents - Edward Stinton and Annie O'Neill
Annie wife of John O�Neill is now a godmother to another Gribbin child � Is this because she is John�s wife? invited to be godmother because of the family name connection.Could this be Annie Fox married only 6 weeks? .... I think so.... another link with the Gribbin family of 15 Laing Street. It would seem so.
Dec 18 Birth of Mary Helen Twaites godmother to Mgt Purcell in 1902
dau of Charles Twaites and Helen [O'Neill]
Dec 31 Baptised in St Mary�s married Frank Dunn in Feb 1911 aged 24
Godparents - John O'Neill and Bridget Fox
This seems like a family swap - where the Foxes and the O�Neill�s agree to be godparents for different families nearby - Bridget must be the Bridget who has just come over to Annie's wedding and to replace her as housekeeper in 39 Bessemer St - standing in with her new brother-in-law - whilst Annie does the same two weeks earlier for her new husband. But this leaves us with a Helen O' Neill who could be a relative - not a sister surely.this would ruin the previous speculation. Who is she and living next door to the Fox family in 41 Bessemer St? Was she just a family friend and neighbour who just happened to live next door - with the same family surname as John O'Neill living at 33. Is this just coincidence?
1891 Census : 14, Berkeley Vale, Falmouth, Cornwall
BODEN, Thomas W Head Wdr M 62 1829 Own Means Derby
BODEN, Clara Daur Single F 28 1863 Own Means Normanton, Derby
BODEN, Gertrude Daur Single F 25 1866 Own Means Littleover, Derby
O'NEILL, Margaret Servt Single F 51 1840 General Serv Dom Ireland
As a follow-up to the previous email, Thomas Boden died in 1899 Oct/Nov/Dec. Margaret doesn't figure in the 1901 census at the Boden household. The two girls(women) are left with a new servant. That was about the time she first appeared at Grangetown. I surmise that she (Margaret) left the household to look after Patrick and Aunty Maggie. The dates appear to make that a reasonable assumption. Ged
1891 Census Records - 41 Bessemer St Grangetown
Charles Thwaites Head 50 Boiler Fireman Roydon Norfolk b.1841
Ellen Thwaite Wife 46 nee O�Neill Ireland b.1845
Arthur Son 20 Labourer Bangalore East Indies b.1871
Catherine Dau Dau 16 Dressmaker's App Wellington EastIndies b.1875
Florence Dau 13 Scholar Grimstone Norfolk b.1878
Augustine Son 11 Scholar Grimstone Norfolk b.1880
Henry Son 8 Scholar Grangetown b.1883
Mary Ellen Dau 4 Grangetown b.1887
The Baptism of Henry Thwaites in 1883 should also reveal more godparents - records might be available in St Peter's South Bank as Canon Nolan was P.P. for Grangetown in the early days. The 1881 Census Records of Charles and Ellen Thwaites in Grimstone Norfolk might reveal a County place of birth for Ellen Thwaites formerly O'Neill - who is too old to be a sister to John but the ideal age to be sister to Margaret - born c 1848.
The interesting person here is Florence. When Patrick returns to Grangetown to live in 1901- the first house he boards in is Florence�s house with his grannie Margaret O�Neill. Remember - Florence�s mother is an O�Neill, called Ellen/Helen. Is she a relative? She was born in Ireland in 1845 - Perhaps Grannie Margaret is her mother�s sister. Blood is thicker than water.
Nov 10 Birth of Patrick O'Neill - [Grandad] m Mary Ellen Mannix
at 5 Bessemer St Grangetown Eston
Father John O'Neill Mother Annie O'Neill (Fox)
Steelworks Labourer
Nov 17 Baptised in St Mary's by J J Nolan
Godparents - Patrick Fox and Bridget Fox / Belinda ?
1889
Jan 3 Informant - X The mark of Annie O'Neill 5 Bessemer St
1891
Feb 18 Birth of Mary Ann O'Neill - did not survive the year
daughter of John O'Neill and Annie( Fox)
Feb 22 Baptised St Mary's by JJ Nolan
Godparents - Edward Stinson and Bridget Fox
Edward Stinson appears to be
the brother of Mrs Gribbin - see census records another strong link with the
Gribbin family and probably a friend of John O'Neill? 1881 Census Records for Normanby
Rd South Bank Patrick Gribbin Head mar 30 General
Lab Ireland Elizabeth Wife mar 26 Ireland John Son 7 Mbro Hugh Son 4 Ireland Edward Son 2 Ireland William Son 6mth Eston Robert Stinson Brdr mar 25 Gen
Lab Ireland James Gorman Brdr unm 25 Gen
Lab Ireland Since Grangetown was not
built until 1882, the census records for 1891 are incorporated in the South
Bank records - because they are so close. NB There is no sign of Patrick
Gribbin in 1871 Census for Charles St Linthorpe. Here are another Gribbin family recorded in St Mary's
M'bro:- March 20th 1874 - Birth of John
Leo Gribbin of North Ormesby son of John and Elizabeth Gribbin formerly
Gribbin Godparents - John Gribben and
Frances Jackson Could they be related? This
family lived 7 West Terrace and according to the census records of 1871 -John
was 68 and a retired draper born in Co Down Ireland - a clue if they are related. 1891 Census
Records for 15 Laing St Grangetown Patrick Gribbin Hd 40 Ireland b.1851 Elizabeth
A ... Wife 37 Ireland b.1854 John
Gribbin son 17 Labourer Mbro Charles St b.1874 Hugh
Gribbin son 13 Scholar Ireland b.1878 Joseph Wm son 10 Scholar South Bank b.1881 EScholar Elizabeth
dau 7 Scholar South Bank Mary
D dau 5 South Bank b.1886 Robert
L son 4m South Bank b.1890 Edward
Stinson B.I.L. 28 Labourer Ireland b.1863 Catherine dau 4 b 1887 So here are some possible leads
about the Gribbin family. We know that for a short time in about 1874 they came
to Middlesbrough and had John. Patrick would be 23 Elizabeth 20. Perhaps they
may show up on a census for 1871 - 3 years earlier - but that would make Elizabeth
only 17-but her maiden name is Stinson....so she may be in Middlesbrough in
1871 with her Stinson family-after their emigration. However since she was born
in Ireland and later returns there after having her first child, it is likely
that she was probably in Ireland as a child herself. Details re birth Feb 20th 1874 Birth of John
Gribbit(in) Charles St M'bro son of Patrick Gribbin 20yrs and
Elizabeth Anna Stevenson (Stinson?) 18yrs Godparents - Robert Stinson
and Mary Ann Milligan So they return to Ireland for
a few years around 1877 - 80 and return to South Bank-to have Joseph in 1891 1891 1891 Census for 56
Calthorpe St Middlesbrough April John O'Neill Head 27 Puddler Ironworks Ireland Anne O'Neill Wife 24 Ireland Patrick O'Neill son 2 Patri Patrick O Neill 2
Grangetown No sign of Mary Ann O'Neill
- so the child must have died between Feb 1890 and April one of the reasons for moving
house perhaps -from Grangetown to Middlesbrough Dec 27 Birth of Margaret O'Neill in 17 Lawson St Middlesbrough Father John O'Neill Mother
Annie O�Neill formerly
Fox Ironworker marries James Conway 1892 Feb 15th Informant - X Mark of John O' Neill - Father - 17
Lawson St Mar 24th DEATH
OF ANNIE O' NEILL aged 28 yrs - wife of John O'Neill Iron Worker at 17 Lawson St
Middlesbrough
of Bronchial Catarrh Broncho Pneumonia asphyxia
Mar 25th X The mark of John O' Neill Widower present
at the death
17 Lawson St Middlesbrough
A very sad situation for all concerned
- a new baby and toddler left motherless.The children were taken to Barley Hill
Tyrone Ireland to be cared for by Annie's mother Bella Fox - wife of Peter Fox,
for whom Annie had kept house for in 39 Bessemer St until her marriage in 1887.
Little Patrick and baby Margaret would never see their father again.
1894 REMARRIED
Jan 11 Marriage of John O' Neill Aged 28 Widower (Genl Labourer) 22 Welford St Mbro &
Rose Goodman
Aged 27 (Spinster
) 167 Cannon St Mbro* Father (John O'Neill) deceased
Farm Labourer Father Peter Goodman
Shoe Maker
- in St Mary's Cathedral RC Witnesses: Thomas McKinstrie
X The Mark of John O' Neill and Margaret McKinstry
Rose Goodman
- signed her own name
*167 Cannon St is the address
of Peter Goodman in M'bro Directory
1887 Jan 27 Birth of John O' Neill in 22 Welford St M'bro
son of John O' Neill and Rose O'Neill nee Goodman
Baptism in St Mary's Cathedral M'bro
Godparents - James Docherty and Margaret McInstry
Half-brother to Patrick and an uncle to my dad- killed in action World War 1 Sept 25th 1915 - Eighth Battalion Seaforth Highlanders His name is inscribed on Albert Park Memorial tablets outside gate.
1895 Oct 8th Birth of Annie O' Neill in 22 Welford St M'bro died in Berwick - buried in Ireland
daughter of John O' Neill and Rose (Goodman) Nov 8th
Baptism in St Mary's Cathedral M'bro
Godparents - Thomas Doughty and Sara Crossin 1897
Feb 7th DEATH OF JOHN O' NEILL AT 21 Welford St M'bro Aged 32 yrs Ironworks Labourer - from -
Acute Lobar pneumonia 4.5days JB Larke MD Feb 8th
Informant - T McInstrie Brother in law Present at death Resident at 22 Welford St Middlesbrough
NB Who lived at 21 Welford St - the address given for place of death? Thomas McKinstrie & Mgt Goodman seem to be living in the Goodman family home in 167 Cannon St in 1891 because they have a boy Peter born there - Cathedral Baptismal Records
NB: Rose remarries on April 18th 1901 to a Paddy Donnelly - address given as 21 Welford St, and is living in 6 Samuelson Street Newport by the year 1915 Cathedral records & War Office Records Witnesses - James Doherty and Maria McKernon or McKeown
Must check St Patricks RC for Baptisms of Donnelly 1901-1915
1903 Birth of Daniel Donnelly 14 Welford St M'bro Feb 16th
son of Patrick Donnelly and Rose Goodman
Godparents Daniel Donnelly and Mary Donnelly marries Rose Linon 18th April 1934 in Armagh Cathedral 1900 .
About this time Patrick O' Neill leaves for England from Tyrone to take up work in the Ironworks owned by Bolckow & Vaughan in Grangetown, to join his uncle Michael Fox and Edward Purcell, now living in Bessemer St. He is about 12 years of age. According to Aunt Eileen, he lived with his Grannie O'Neill in Multy Sullivan's back bedroom. However...... in But according to the Census Records of 1901 Patrick is living in 45 Bessemer Street with his sister and his grannie aged 65..in the house of John Burt his wife Florence aged 23 who was born in Grimstone Norfolk and their daughter Mary aged 1 Grandad�s age is stated to be 13 and his sister Margaret is 9.
1901 Census Records: 45, Bessemer Street, Eston, Grangetown
BURT, John Head Marr. M 25 1876 Vessel Man St'l Wrks Middlesbro
BURT, Florence Wife Marr. F 23 1878 Grimston Norfolk
BURT, Mary E Daur. F 1 1900 Grangetown
O'NEILL Margaret Boarder Wdw F 65 1836 Ireland (Gt Gt Gran)
O'NEILL, Patrick Boarder M 13 1888 Grangetown - (Grandad)
O'NEILL, Margaret Boarder F 9 1892 Grangetown � (Gt Aunt Maggie Conway)
The Thwaites family come from Grimstone Norfolk � and he married an Ellen O�Neill � Florence's mother. Strange isn�t it? Could Florence be a great niece of Margaret O'Neill. And that's why Margaret, her great Aunt, is staying here?
1908 Jan 25 Marriage of Patrick O' Neill to Mary Ellen Manix
Patrick 21 General Labourer of 40 Laing St marries Mary Ellen Manix of 57 Bessemer St
Father John O' Neill Deceased Labourer Father John Manix Labourer
in St Mary's RC Church Bolckow Rd Grangetown
Patrick O' Neill and Mary Ellen Manix signed.
Witnesses - Edward Burt and Margaret O' Neill*
We have two choices here and two possible witnesses - either Grannie Margaret O'Neill now aged 70. She lived with Patrick and Mary Ellen until her death in c 1912 - positively disliked by Mary Ellen and Edward Burt aged 67 from Vaughan St OR A young Margaret O�Neill aged 16 who was born in Mbro and young Edward Burt aged 26. I prefer the young couple myself but would they have been eligible? Or was it a mixture of both?
March 25 Birth of John O' Neill - our dad - 29 Laing St - meningitis and deafness
April 4 Baptism in St Mary's RC Grangetown
son of Patrick O'Neill and Mary Ellen Mannix
Godparents - Margaret Lagan and Edward Burt if you want to know more click on picture
1909 June 21 Birth of Patrick O' Neill 13 Bessemer St (did not survive)
son of Patrick and Mary Ellen O'Neill ( Mannix ) June 21st
Baptism seriously ill
Godparents - James Conway and Anna O' Neill
1910 Oct 14 Birth of James O' Neill did not survive
son of Peter? and Mary Helen O' Neill ( Mannix )
Oct 22 Baptism in St Mary's
Godparents-Maria Anne Traynor
Oct 29 Birth of Elizabeth Purcell marr Tim McGarrell St Peter's Scarboro'Aug 1931
daughter of Edward Purcell and Isabella Fox
Godparent - Margaret O' Neill died Nov 27th 1968 aged 57 Gravestone near entrance 1911
1911 Deaths of Michael Fox and Edmund Purcell (see Fox tree - both uncles of Patrick O' Neill)
1912 Dec 1st Birth of William O' Neill in 82 Vaughan St (did not survive) son of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Ellen Mannix Dec 13th
Baptised at St Mary's Godparents - John Hannon and Bella Purcell 1914
1914 WORLD WAR 1 BEGINS
Patrick O' Neill enters as Gunner in Royal Artillery
1915 July 4 Birth of Anna O' Neill in Vaughan St (did not survive) daughter of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Helen Mannix July 10th
Baptised in St Mary's Godparents - Margaret Conway previously O' Neill
1917 Sept 20 Birth of Margaret O' Neill - married John Swan
daughter of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Helen Manix Oct 13th
Baptised in St Mary's Godparents - Eugene Daly & Margaret Daly
1918 END OF WORLD WAR
1919 Dec 7 Birth of Winifred O' Neill - 86 Vaughan St - died in infancy
daughter of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Helen Manix Dec 13th
Baptism in St Mary's Godparents-Mary Helen Coughlan
My mother remembers Winifred being 'laid out' in the window of the house in Vaughan St and says she was about 3 yrs old
1921 Oct 28 Birth of Mary O' Neill married R. Parkes Aug 5th 1940 Darlington
daughter of Patrick O' Neill and Mary Ellen Manix Nov 21st
Baptism in St Mary's Godmother - Margaret Dooley
1924 Feb 13 Birth of Gerrard O'Neill - 86 Vaughan St - (did not survive)
son of Patrick O'Neill and Mary Ellen Mannix
Godparents-William Linehan & Mary Linehan
1926 Feb 10th Birth of Eileen O'Neill - married James Rooney July 1947
daughter of Patrick and Mary O'Neill Mannix Feb 20th
Baptism in St Mary's Godparents - Thomas Doyle and Helen Doyle
Eileen died January 1997
1927 Dec 26th Birth of Gerald O'Neill marr Valerie Brown 1954 St John's Billingham
son of Patrick and Mary Ellen Mannix
Dec 31 Baptism in St Mary's - Fr McEldowney
Godmother - Catherine Bennett
1928? Birth of Kevin 0'Neill - last child - (did not survive)
son of Patrick and Mary Ellen
1935 MARRIAGE OF JOHN O'NEILL TO WINIFRED TRAYNOR
Aug 3 In the Church of St Ethelberga Barking East London by Fr Heenan - later to become Cardinal
Living in London